Joschka Fischer, who served as foreign minister and vice chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany from 1998 to 2005, was a key politician in Germany’s energy transition. As part of The smarter E Europe 2024, he spoke about the global commitment to climate protection at the We Choose Earth Tour. The tour is organized by EDP, a global energy company with headquarters in Portugal.
In an interview with Fischer, we asked him for his views on the course of the energy transition as part of climate protection in Germany, how well the current government is implementing it, and how we can continue on the path to a sustainable future.
The political promotion of the energy transition, including the adoption of Germany’s first Renewable Energy Sources Acts (EEG), is one of the political legacies of your time in office. Please evaluate the course of the energy transition in Germany over the last two decades.
The EEG was essential, it was the big bang in Germany, so to speak. Not only to promote the idea of the energy transition, but above all to make it a reality. It was the catalyst for tremendous change. Then came Angela Merkel's long term in office, in which implementation rather stagnated. Now, with the new government and its challenges, we’re in a very difficult situation. The results of the European elections speak volumes. The outcome for The Greens was anything but inspiring. I think one of the reasons for this was that they didn’t consider the interests of the citizens in the heating law. They weren’t involved properly. It was a technocratic decision that repelled rather than persuaded. Now the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) has distanced itself from its announcement that they would scrap the heating law in its entirety. Instead, they’ve reconsidered, and there’s no shame in changing one’s mind. So I think we will see a continuation of this trend, including in politics. Even if there should be political changes in Germany. It seems to me that we are about to lose our economic future if we don’t act.
For instance, when I hear the word competitiveness, I think: Will the German automotive industry still be competitive in ten years or who will be more competitive? China, which is betting on the mobility transition, making long-term plans and transitioning to an electric industry, or Germany, which is still envisioning a great future for its gasoline-fueled Porsche Carrera? The answer is pretty simple. It will be China.
Let’s take another look at the energy transition as a whole: Are you satisfied with the current state?
On one hand I’m satisfied, but on the other hand I’m very frustrated. I’m satisfied because a large part of the industry has done its part and will continue to do so in order to stay competitive, maintaining Germany as a modern business location. And that’s good. When I think back to the 1980s, large energy companies such as RWE and Eon were on a completely different track than they are today. There’s been huge progress. On the other hand, the big challenge is scale. Growth is devouring all success. All the progress we’ve made in terms of emissions is being eroded by the quantitative and by qualitative growth of the demand. The government of the EU’s most important industrialized country and the world’s third largest site of major industries is beset by infighting and creating obstacles for itself time and again. This is very frustrating.
You’ve already mentioned the heating law. What do you think about the energy policy of the current German government?
I think the minister in charge is very committed. The big problem is that he has lost a great deal of trust because of the heavily technocratic implementation of the law. However, the political leaders have to overcome this issue as best they can – and it won’t be easy. But what’s the alternative? Returning to a more rhetorical government. And I dare say that most of what we’ve seen of the energy transition can be traced back to the Green party in the past. From this point of view, I believe Robert Habeck is playing a key role.
How does society as a whole need to change to accelerate the energy transition and climate protection?
I believe the question of speed is misleading. In a democracy, you need majorities to change laws or structures. You need to convince and involve people and not scare them away. That would have the opposite effect. So I would say: majority over speed. Speed is not the main problem. Objectively, it may seem to be the main problem, but without a majority there’s no speed, no nothing.
How would people’s minds have to change to achieve this majority that leads to a higher speed?
The majority was there, but that majority needs to be nurtured, not scared away. You need to regain their trust. This will be the next phase: rebuilding trust. We also have to argue a lot more from an economic point of view. After all, this is about the economy – the future of both the European and the Germany economy.
What concrete steps should the government and industry take to meet climate targets? How should they cooperate?
We should do everything we can to keep the private sector engaged and on track. I think by now there is a lot of untapped potential, especially among the younger generation of entrepreneurs. We should also be aware that if we don’t keep up in environmental technologies, in the energy transition and in the mobility transition, if we leave it all to the Chinese, our economy will also decline. Just look at the German automotive industry. They are so proud of the cars they’re building but their sales figures are putting them under more and more pressure. In Germany, people still believe that we’re making the decisions in this area. But in group headquarters, everyone is painfully aware that the decisions are made in Beijing and at the automotive exhibition in Beijing. The world has changed and won’t change back: Europe won’t be the center of the world anymore and we will have to get used to that.
How can the energy transition be economically viable and at the same time promote social justice?
The main factor was Putin. By attacking Ukraine and cutting off gas supplies, he forcefully triggered the energy transition and the high prices associated with it. This shock led to a surge in prices and cheap Russian energy will not return. I’m warning everyone not to cling to this illusion. This means that Germany will continue to face high energy prices for an extended period. Some companies may struggle to adapt and I hope the government will support them. I think what’s very positive are the massive investments in renewables. I believe this is a very positive way forward. But energy prices will continue to be a problem.